Lurie: Well, first of all, I think we've passed the point of authoritarianism. This does not mean that we are Putin's Russia. In fact, it is because we are not seeing the manifestations that you pointed out. That's because Trump—and his enablers, and in the case of Fox News, the companies that depend on the political media industry of which he is the center—all depend on making Trump look like Vladimir Putin. Vladimir Putin—his regime depends on appearing to be something he is not. Well, Trump, that's all the more true, isn't it? And here we are: Trump and his people are trying to establish a dictatorship in the United States. And yes, for some time it seemed that they would succeed. I mean, Trump has acted like a dictator in many ways, but the problem, of course, is that it's a vulnerable dictatorship. Almost none of these abuses please the American people. And unlike Russia, where you can (and a dictator can) actually kill a million Russians or send a million Russians to their deaths in a pointless war, in the United States, presidents, even those like Trump who aspire to be dictators, do things that are deeply unpopular – their political influence. And in my opinion, he is coming home to shelter Trump.
Sargent: Well, I want to address your point about how this illusion of strength is necessary to mask the weaknesses of this presidency, structural, deep weaknesses. You see White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt constantly talking about how energetic Trump is. You see how his doctor's reports of his excellent health become almost comical. We've all seen those Cabinet meetings where one after another these figures act as North Korean-style propagandists for him, bowing obsequiously to him, talking about how strong he is, how powerful he is, how – and this is important – what a world-historical figure he is. It's an important part of many things. And I think we're seeing Trump's reaction to that. Time that he and they all know how important this illusion of power is, right? But his crazy response shows that the only way to maintain this illusion is with a lot of lies, and also that they know how dangerous it is for him to be perceived as weak and humiliated. Hence the absurd overreaction.
Lurie: When the image of power is the core of a leader's political success, all it takes is a puncture in the image for success to begin to dissipate. And then all the tools that have been used in the past to promote Trump's image – some of which you just mentioned, right? The praise heaps on him at odd cabinet meetings actually ends up weakening him. And this, I believe, is the dynamic.
