The Pentagon says it is launching an investigation into Arizona Senator Mark Kelly after a video surfaced showing Democratic lawmakers urging military personnel to disobey “unlawful orders.”
JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the Pentagon is looking into remarks by Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly. Last week, Kelly and five other Democratic lawmakers with military or intelligence experience released a video saying U.S. troops should not obey illegal orders.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
MARK KELLY: You can refuse illegal orders.
ELISSA SLOTKIN: You can refuse illegal orders.
CHRIS DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.
SLOTKIN: No one is obligated to carry out orders that violate the law or our constitution.
SUMMERS: President Trump responded on social media that this is, quote, “seditious behavior punishable by death.” But now one of the senators is facing a military tribunal from the Pentagon. NPR's Quil Lawrence is here to explain. Hi all.
KUILE LAWRENCE, BYLINE: Hello.
SUMMERS: Quil, start by reminding us exactly what this video was about. Why are all these Democrats talking about illegal orders?
LAWRENCE: Well, there are two areas here. The judges have ruled that some of the Trump administration's moves to deploy National Guard troops against the wishes of state governors are illegal. But there are also ongoing deadly strikes on ships allegedly transporting drugs into the US. And it's yet another case where legal scholars and some European allies have said they don't think the killings are legal. So these are six veteran Democratic lawmakers echoing what troops, and especially officers, are taught is that you don't have to obey illegal orders and that, importantly, simply following orders is no defense against doing something illegal.
SUMMERS: Right. So, do you understand why the Pentagon is paying special attention to Senator Kelly?
LAWRENCE: Yes. Secretary of State Hegseth has been very clear on this point. Of all these six, Kelly is the only one who has been officially discharged from the military, and therefore – he is a former Navy captain, a former combat pilot – so he could be recalled to active duty and face court martial. But I believe that this will be unprecedented. I spoke with military lawyer Kevin Carroll, a retired colonel who served in the first Trump administration, and he said that the last time he could think anything like that was in 1925 – that is, 100 years ago – but that was an active duty officer. This is completely different. And it appears, Carroll said, to be an attempt to silence political dissent.
KEVIN CARROLL: To do this with a retiree who is also, you know, a senator who was considered for vice president and could potentially become a presidential candidate in 2028 is really a horse of a different color.
SUMMERS: Quil, has there been any response from Senator Kelly so far?
LAWRENCE: Yes. He made a statement. I will quote in part. He said: “Secretary Hegseth's tweet is the first I've heard of. I also saw a post from the President saying that I should be arrested, hanged and executed. If this is meant to intimidate me and other members of Congress from doing their jobs and holding this administration accountable, it won't work.” He also posted a photo on social media of his dress uniform with a chest full of medals, which I think largely comes across as trolling Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who does not have any combat medals that one would normally expect from a man of his position.
SUMMERS: Is there any sense of where this is going to lead?
LAWRENCE: Well, the Pentagon said it's looking into it. It's unclear if they'll actually charge him or call him back to court-martial, especially since all these Democrats did was make a statement about the US military code, but that's a tough situation for the troops right now. NPR and others have reported that the Justice Department has determined that these boat strikes are legal, so these troops must obey their orders. But the head of the Southern Command has already left his post and is going to leave it in the near future. Four-star Admiral Alvin Halsey reportedly had doubts about the strikes. So say American officials who are not authorized to speak publicly.
SUMMER: NPR's Quil Lawrence. Thank you.
LAWRENCE: Thank you.
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