Is Congress willing to curb Trump’s approach to executive power? : NPR

President Trump's expansive interpretation of executive authority continues to reshape federal spending amid the government shutdown.



ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:

President Trump has a broad interpretation of executive power. In just the past week, his administration has stepped up military strikes against what the president says are drug vessels. And he paid some federal employees by moving money without congressional authorization, which is perhaps the legislature's most fundamental responsibility. All of this raises questions, even among some Republicans, about the role of Congress under Trump. Joining us now is NPR congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales. Hello Claudia.

CLAUDIA GRISALES, BYLINE: Hi, Adrian.

FLORIDO: Claudia, I want to start with a simple question: What should be the relationship between the White House and Congress?

GRISALES: Correct. With equal branches of government, we should see Congress weigh these decisions, such as when to use military force or at least oversight. Lawmakers should have full control over how the government spends money, as provided for in the Constitution. Instead, we see Trump unilaterally calling strikes on these supposed drug ships in the Caribbean and issuing paychecks to some federal employees when the shutdown means no payments are due. I spoke with Professor Stephen Vladeck of Georgetown University about how he would characterize this moment for Congress.

STEPHEN VLADEK: I think we've seen a radical collapse of Congressional power.

GRISALES: And we're also seeing Democrats speaking out. They express concerns about these steps daily.

FLORIDO: What about Republican leaders, Claudia? Are they worried?

GRISALES: No, many are defending the president. I've talked to Senate Majority Leader John Thune about this, especially regarding appropriations. This is how he answered.

JOHN THUNE: I mean, obviously we have the power of the purse. Everyone is waiting for the government to open. Congress must do this.

GRISALES: But he says Trump is helping to ease some of the pain federal workers have caused by the shutdown.

TOON: There are things they can do. They move money. They're doing what every administration has done in the past to try to keep people, as many people on the payroll as possible.

GRISALES: So what he's trying to say is that Congress still retains power of the purse, but they're okay with letting Trump do it.

FLORIDO: Right. You know, appropriations in particular for Claudius have not been going smoothly for a long time. So what makes this moment different?

GRISALES: Well, we haven't seen a president take this level of authority over appropriations before, especially when we look at the decisions made by Trump and Office of Management and Budget chief Russell Vought. During the shutdown, it became more apparent how far they were willing to go to cover the costs. We started the year with the dissolution of several federal agencies, and now we see how Vought is directing funds during the shutdown, decisions that would normally be made by Congress. I spoke with another Georgetown law professor, Josh Chafetz, about OMB's actions in this regard.

JOSH CHAFEZ: Essentially, OMB is saying we can spend money that hasn't been approved by Congress. And we don't have to spend money allocated by Congress. If you put these two concepts together, there is nothing left of the role of Congress.

GRISALES: And we know some Republicans are speaking out on this issue, that Congress should retain the power of the purse. They include Kentucky Senator Rand Paul and Maine Senator Susan Collins.

FLORIDO: Okay, the administration is picking up some of the major expense costs. What about boat strikes in the Caribbean? How do they fit into the broader conversation about executive power?

GRISALES: A small number of Republicans are concerned that these strikes violate domestic and international laws. Congress has the power to declare war. Senator Paul, whom I just mentioned, is one of those people. He says Trump has set a new precedent: shoot first and ask questions later.

RAND PAUL: I think the idea of ​​indiscriminately killing people without knowing their names, without seeing any evidence, without making formal charges and without collecting evidence – it's kind of ironic that we think these people are so dangerous that we're going to kill them without having any information.

GRISALES: And today, a U.S. official who was not authorized to speak publicly told NPR that last night the U.S. struck another suspected drug ship, but this time in the Pacific Ocean.

FLORIDO: So Republican leaders generally agree that Trump is taking these actions. In short, Claudia, are there any forces on the horizon that could limit Trump's power?

GRISALES: Well, we've seen some challenges to his power in the federal courts. Here's what experts say. They also say voters may have the final say when they cast ballots in next year's midterm elections.

FLORIDO: This is NPR congressional correspondent Claudia Grisales. Claudia, thank you.

GRISALES: Thank you.

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