Guillermo del Toro met my spiritual Norwegian brother Roar Uthaug for the meaningful conversation organized Netflix about the inspiration of the creatures from “Troll” and “Frankenstein” In the video, the two directors share stories and discuss how they came up with the famous creatures that became the basis of their epic works. “Frankenstein“, a wild reimagining of Mary Shelley's 1818 novel, which had its world premiere in Venice to a standing ovation, launched on Netflix on November 19. The film stars Oscar Isaac as Victor, a mad scientist who sets out to defeat death and revive the Thing, played by Jacob Elordi, who joined the film weeks before filming began.
In a conversation with Outhaug, del Toro talked about the race against time to get the creature's elaborate design ready in time after the actor who was originally cast in the role left the project due to scheduling issues. “It took us almost a year to create the final design. We sculpted it for one actor, and it took a long time. And then that actor left the project, and we only had four or five weeks to redo everything,” del Toro said. The director admitted that he was “not afraid” because he has “extensive experience with makeup, visual effects and animation. “When people say, 'Oh, it's impossible, it's too hard… I know it's possible.' I could do it! So we weren’t scared at all and took it,” he recalled.
Del Toro also said that he felt “a lot of kinship between Hellboy 2 and Troll 2.” “There are some trends, themes, concerns and even devices that I thought might be long-lost brothers or something,” he joked, referring to the creatures' place in their films and how they are mistreated by humans.
Uthaug, whose Troll 2 will be released on Netflix on December 1, spoke about the film's inspiration from Norwegian folklore and renowned artist Theodor Kittelsen. “He did a drawing called 'Troll on Karl Johans Street,' which is the main street in Oslo, and there was a troll walking there in the early 1900s. And I thought, what would happen if a troll walked down that street today? And how would the government and the army and everyone react to that? So actually Kittelsen's drawing was the source of the idea,” the director said. Speaking about the ambition and scope, Uthaug told del Toro that he “grew up watching American cinema.” “I love those big blockbusters and I've always been interested in visual effects and special effects,” he said, but he also managed to weave in some Norwegian elements from the “folklore, setting and characters.” “I think in Europe we have a different attitude towards how we write characters than perhaps in the US,” he said. The first Troll movie became a Netflix hit when it was released in 2022. It became the streamer's most-watched non-English-language film of all time, racking up a record 103 million views in its first 91 days.
Here's the full conversation:
Guillermo del Toro: When people say to me: “What’s Mexican in your films?” I say: I am. And I think the same can be said about you. You have a very American style, rhythm, character, intros. It's a very playful genre. And you have an unmistakable personality that is tied to where you come from. Would you agree to this?
Nudity: I think that's what I tried to do with the Troll films: mix the American genre and, as you said, the movement, but make it very Norwegian, with folklore, setting and characters. I think in Europe we have a different approach to character writing than perhaps in the US.
Del Toro: Typically, American film resists the intrusion of magic and the supernatural. And finally they have to reluctantly say, “Well, this is real.” But in your films there is an easy coexistence of the fantastic and the human.
Courtesy Netflix © 2024
Courtesy of Netflix
Nudity: In Norway we grow up with this folklore and fairy tales, like the lullabies we sing to our children, about trolls. This is a very big part of our culture. And in the souvenir shops there are trolls, trolls, trolls everywhere.
Del Toro: So this is the only marketing that started before the film.
Nudity: Yes, it's been going on for 100 years and now I'm just trying to take advantage of it.
We have a Norwegian artist named Kittelsen. He painted a drawing called “Troll” on Karl Johans Street, Oslo's main street. And there goes the troll in the early 1900s. And I thought, what would happen if a troll walked down this street today? And how will the government, the army and everyone else react to this? So it was actually Kittelsen's drawing that sparked the idea.
Del Toro: This is very funny. Maybe it's because I am me and you are you, but I felt a great kinship between Hellboy 2 and Troll 2. There are trends, themes, activities, and even devices that I thought might be long lost brothers or something. When designing a creature, it's not so much what it represents, but what it represents and how it will change history. I want to know who I am. In the case of Frankenstein, he is a newly formed man. He is not a repaired corpse or a resurrected pile of rubble. He is a newly created Adam, born almost biblically because he needs to start as a child and be abused by Victor in order to understand cruelty and then ultimately forgiveness. The interesting thing about trolls is that people treat them unfairly. I think the public partially agrees with the trolls.
Courtesy Netflix © 2024
Courtesy of Netflix
Nudity: I also like your films because these creatures are never pure evil. They have some kind of humanity or some kind of emotion. You don't look down at your creatures.
Del Toro: I look down on people. I think it's the same in the Frankenstein retelling. Victor is in any case the main character and antagonist of the film. He's a bad guy and a good guy at the same time. People divide the world into art house cinema and very skilled technical filmmaking, and the ability to combine makeup effects or visual effects, digital creativity, atmosphere and so on. They are separate. But in your case, you seem to be doing both just fine. How did you gain such technical skill and ability?
Nudity: I grew up watching American films, I love those big blockbusters and I've always been interested in visual effects and special effects. So I think it's the love of it, and I think coupled with the Nordic mentality that combines those two things. In your later films, you worked with creatures that you had on set.
Del Toro: The only creatures I don't have on set are either too small or too big. But I prefer to give the actor something real.
Nudity: I would really like this. But, of course, trolls are so huge. We have a small drone with a red light flashing at 50 meters in the air and we can control it so the actors can react to it. We show them concept art so they get an idea of what it will look like. We also pre-render many of these scenes so we know what shots we're going to use and also to make sure they understand the hand is coming and the tail is swaying. We try to get as much information as possible before we plan the shoot so they know how to react to it.
Del Toro: Do you do animation studies of troll movements before shooting or only for each plate?
Nudity: We do this during the troll design process. We work with the concept artist as well as the animators to get the look right as well as the weight when they walk, like how they walk. We are trying to measure one step so that the troll walks so many meters of the location so that we can plan it.
Del Toro: Tell me a little about the process of creating this creature. Did you base this on one illustrator? Did you use multiple sources to create the final troll?
Nudity: This is partly Kittelsen's work. He is a Norwegian artist who created trolls as we perceive them and also inspired other art about trolls.
Del Toro: Your design is much more realistic.
Nudity: For the villain, we wanted him to feel like a predator. Then we looked at the wolves and made his face more triangular. And the troll hero is rounder and kinder. And since they are supposed to come from Norwegian nature, we looked at the surface of the stones and the forest soil.
Del Toro: What about the eyes?
Nudity: The hero is a troll, his eyes are more human. But an important feature of trolls is that they always have rather large noses and large eyes. How did you come up with the Frankenstein painting?
Del Toro: We knew that if this guy (Victor) thought about it for 20 years, he would do something great. He's not going to make a station wagon. He's going to make a Lamborghini. So we thought about what was available in the 1800s in terms of design and access to anatomical points. We thought that we would follow the lines of anatomy, and in the area of the head we would follow the lines of a science called phrenology, which studies the parts of the head that create the will and personality. It was very difficult then. These are circular and diagonal scars that symbolize this because we thought: where can he access the heart? This is functional, but from an aesthetic point of view, the different skin colors are important because it gives the idea that many men form this creature.
Nudity: How long did it take you?
Del Toro: Well, it took us almost a year to arrive at the final design. We sculpted it for one actor, and it took a lot of time. And then that actor left the project, and we only had four or five weeks to redo everything. But I wasn't afraid. I said, “We'll do it.” I have extensive experience in makeup effects, visual effects and animation. When people say, “Oh, it's possible,” it's too difficult… I know it's possible. I could do it! So we weren’t scared at all and took it.
