NPR's Michelle Martin speaks with former CDC chief medical officer Dr. Debra Khoury about the expected vote Friday to vaccinate all newborns against hepatitis B.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Let's take a look at the doctor who previously served as the CDC's chief medical officer. Dr. Debra Khoury worked at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for more than ten years. She resigned in August, along with several other colleagues, to protest Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy's changes at the agency, and later testified before a Senate panel that Kennedy was, quote, “censoring the science.” And she is now with us. Dr. Khoury, good morning.
DEBRA KHURY: Good morning.
MARTIN: You just heard our colleague Rob Stein describe this chaotic meeting. I know you watched it too. What did you make of it?
KHURY: You know, it's disappointing and really worrying when lives are at stake and we're talking about vaccines. And this committee met in September, could not muster the strength and postponed it until December. So of course, you know, in three months they should know what they're voting on and the evidence or they shouldn't be having these discussions.
MARTIN: There's been a lot of criticism of this group of advisers – for their credentials or lack thereof – including from at least one Republican. Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy on Thursday called the committee, quote, “totally discredited.” And I want to mention that Cassidy is also a doctor. Do you share his opinion?
KHURY: Yes. You know, when you look at ACIP members—members of the Committee on Immunization Practices—they're typically pediatricians, people involved in vaccinations, pharmacologists. Many of these people do not have such a deep scientific background. And when you looked at the speakers yesterday, what was unusual was that usually the CDC scientists really dig deep into the data. Instead, you had people, including two who had a retracted paper on autism, speaking out on vaccine safety but who were not vaccine safety scientists.
MARTIN: I noticed you posted an article on the Time website this morning saying that Congress really needs to step in, but what can they do?
KHURY: Yes. There are some things they could do, not just regarding the vaccine committee, but the CDC continues to hire political appointees. There are now more than 14 of them, and there are no career scientists in the director’s office. I left a hundred days ago and there are still no scientists who can really give any direction. If you look at oversight of things like vaccine committee meetings, they can ensure that the committee follows processes, such as the release of documents and data, before the committees begin. You know, ensuring that the voting language is open to the public, ensuring good representation. So there's a lot that Congress could do.
MARTIN: So, getting back to the question of vaccines, the CDC may decide not to follow the panel's recommendations, but if it does follow them, what's your biggest concern? – This recommendation is against repeated vaccination of all newborns against hepatitis B.
KHURY: Yes. And you know, the CDC might not follow them, but the acting director of the CDC is the deputy secretary of RFK, and the secretary, of course, can do what he wants. So I believe that whatever the vaccine committee does, the CDC and the department will follow suit. But if, you know, they decide not to allow this vaccine at two months, they are depriving parents of a choice. Parents should be able to make decisions about protecting their newborns from liver disease throughout their lives. So I would be concerned if they took that choice away from me.
MARTIN: So if parents are concerned and want to opt for the vaccine, can they do so?
URI: It will depend on the vote. If they talk about shared decision making, then parents can still do it. If they say only if you test positive for hepatitis, then that choice will be taken away. And parents should have this right to protect their children. We already know, you know, that thousands and thousands of liver diseases were prevented when the hepatitis vaccine was given to everyone at birth, because there are household contacts, nail trimming and things like that that can infect a newborn, even if the mother does not have hepatitis. So, it's about protecting children and giving parents the opportunity to do that.
MARTIN: This is Dr. Debra Khoury. She is the former chief medical officer of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. She resigned in August. Doctor, thank you so much for sharing these thoughts with us.
KHURY: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
© 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of Use And permissions pages in www.npr.org for more information.
The accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript may be modified to correct errors or accommodate audio updates. Audio on npr.org may be edited after it is originally broadcast or published. The authoritative recording of NPR programs is the audio recording.
