For years, the Kremlin suppressed the Internet. He blocked Facebook and Instagram. The company is now promoting a new application called “Max” for a wide range of Internet services.
ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:
For years, the Kremlin has suppressed Internet use in Russia. Facebook and Instagram banned. This slowed YouTube down, making it difficult for users to access. Now Russian authorities are waging a campaign to force every citizen to download a government-controlled messaging app called MAX, which can make calls, send text messages, transfer money—pretty much anything you can think of.
To talk about the consequences of this, we called investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov. He is the co-author of the book The Red Web, which chronicles how the Kremlin is trying to control Internet use in Russia. Andrey, welcome.
ANDREY SOLDATOV: Hello, thank you for having me.
FLORIDO: Tell us about this app that the Kremlin is promoting – MAX. What is it and how does it work?
SOLDATOV: So, the idea is to create several large applications that will replace Western applications for everyday use by Russian citizens. And MAX was designated by the Russian government in July as a national messenger, which means that it will and should be the access point for ordinary Russians to all types of online services, from banks to services provided by the state.
FLORIDO: Step back for a second to give us more context. Why would Vladimir Putin want to impose this on Russian citizens?
SOLDATOV: Well, I think the logic of the government is that they have finally realized that the biggest threat that the Internet poses is digital, that some sensitive information can be transmitted almost immediately to millions and millions of people. And to do this, to bring these people under control, the government wants to essentially re-educate the Russian population, force them to use and rely in their daily lives on what they would turn to if they were faced with something truly dramatic and extraordinary.
For example, if there is a drone attack in your city, you will immediately be prompted to post something, and you will obviously use an app that is already on your phone, and the government will have the ability to shut down any conversation on that app. This is exactly what they want to do.
FLORIDO: So potentially it will be much easier for the government to censor the things that Russians say among themselves…
SOLDATOV: Absolutely.
FLORIDO: …Make sure they don't reach Western audiences. How do Russians react to pressure to download this app? I guess they understand that, you know, using this means they can and probably will be followed. Why would they use this?
SOLDATOV: Well, right now we don't see much enthusiasm for this application. For example, just today we received news that in the city of Yekaterinburg, students at a local university refused to install this application, and now they are facing expulsion from the university.
FLORIDO: Apart from privacy, are there any other potential costs to Russian freedoms as a result of using a government super app?
SOLDATOV: Yes, absolutely, because after installing this application your device will be completely compromised. So it's not just about the messages you exchange while using this app. It's about your device.
The other problem is that no one really understands the reach this app has to, say, your bank and government accounts or government-provided services. Again, this makes the situation very, very dangerous.
But I think the main reason why the government is promoting this app is to be able to silence the conversation about something sensitive in the country. They will have the opportunity to suppress this conversation, to stop it completely.
FLORIDO: Well, I talked to Andrei Soldatov. He is a longtime Russian investigative reporter and co-author of the book “The Red Web,” about how the Kremlin is trying to control the Internet in Russia. Andrey, thank you for joining us.
SOLDATOV: Oh, thank you for having me.
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