Public health and MAHA leaders have different views on how to improve the health of Americans and often talk past each other. A new podcast helps them speak directly.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
There is a “Make America Healthy Again” movement, epitomized for many by Secretary of Health Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and there are public health leaders who are sharply critical of the movement. It's not easy to get these camps to talk to each other, but a podcast called “Why Should I Trust You?” trying. NPR's Pien Huang has more.
PIEN HUANG, BYLINE: To start the conversation, host Brinda Adhikari asks everyone to introduce themselves. She told me where she was from.
BRINDA ADHIKARI: I think I grew up mostly trusting institutions. I vaccinate my children. Basically, if someone wanted to put me in one camp or another, they would say, “Oh yeah, you kind of lean more towards public health.”
HUAN: She's a former television producer who hosted the Apple TV show The Trouble with Jon Stewart. But having these conversations with MAHA leaders helped her understand a lot about herself.
ADHIKARI: I also feel a lot of mistrust. There are certain places where I see eye to eye, especially with the MAHA people.
HUAN: Her podcast “Why Should I Trust You?” launched a year ago. It became famous for bringing traditional health care leaders into the same virtual room with Kennedy supporters to express their differing views.
ADHIKARI: A lot of people in public health really strongly believe that the current administration is bad for public health.
HUAN: Kennedy has made significant cuts to the federal health workforce and the budget and has taken steps to reduce the number of vaccines children receive, causing deep concern among public health advocates.
ADHIKARI: And on the MAHA side, they have great confidence in Robert F. Kennedy Jr. They love him, you know? The people I talk to. Like, there is love there.
HUAN: A recent episode of the Faith and Science Podcast featured Elizabeth Frost, a MAHA organizer in Ohio. Several years ago, she heard Kennedy speak and felt deep agreement.
ELIZABETH FROST: I prayed to God. I said: is this legal? You know he's a good person?
JUAN: And then…
FROST: Basically, I've never heard anything like this before, something came over me and said, you need to do everything possible to elect this person. This is divine order.
HUAN: Frost became Kennedy's presidential campaign manager in Ohio. In this episode, she was joined by Reverend Wendy Silvers, who also worked on his campaign.
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WENDY SILVERS: You know, making it possible for pregnant women to get the COVID vaccine. When I was pregnant, I was told not to eat fish. I was told not to take mercury. I was told not to put anything into my body. But then suddenly we got to the point where if there is a problem, you need to go and get a vaccine.
HUAN: Silvers went on to say that the COVID vaccines have caused a lot of people to have terrible reactions. Adhikari chimed in during the podcast.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST: “WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU?”)
ADHIKARI: There always comes a point when someone says a lot of data and someone else just says it's not true. And they're never going anywhere, okay?
HUAN: She gave a quick rebuttal to Dr. Francis Collins, the former director of the National Institutes of Health.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST: “WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU?”)
FRANCIS COLLINS: I do think, Reverend Wendy, that a completely objective analysis of all the data without careful cherry picking would show that some of the things you've put forward are not based on evidence.
HUANG: And then, as Adhikari insisted, they moved on. In the end, Collins said it was a difficult conversation.
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST: “WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU?”)
COLLINS: It feels like it's a demonstration of how far apart we are.
HUANG: Adhikari later told me that the sessions could last for hours. They're dirty. They don't dare.
ADHIKARI: You can go away saying this group thinks vaccines are terrible. This group believes that vaccines are the bedrock of public health and the two will never meet. But I am not from the camp with which we can only cooperate if the goal is to persuade.
HUAN: She learned that deeply held beliefs cannot be shaken without time, trust and shared values. But many of her guests say they feel heard and have more empathy for the people on the other side.
Pien Huang, NPR News.
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