President Trump's desire to end the war in Ukraine exceeds any specific policy goals he may have. His desire for the big prize (peace) and cementing his legacy as a mediator drives his efforts.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
President Trump is sending representatives to Moscow and Kyiv to find a way to end the war in Ukraine. One of his aides is the subject of a new Bloomberg report. Bloomberg published a transcript of a phone call in which an aide advises a Russian official on how Russia can deal with Donald Trump's emotions. NPR has not confirmed this transcript. And in a moment we will hear from Michael McFaul, the former US Ambassador to Russia. Let's start with negotiations.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez is here to talk about why Trump persists even after all these setbacks. Franco, good morning.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Good morning, Michelle.
MARTIN: So the original 28-point plan was widely criticized by the Russians as a wish list. Now the administration says that it has been updated. How are things now?
ORDOÑEZ: Yes. The Trump administration is negotiating furiously with both sides, oscillating between a Russia-friendly version and a more Ukraine-friendly one. And now Trump says there are only a few points of disagreement left. Last night he said he was sending his special envoy Steve Witkoff (Witkoff is the Trump negotiator who appears in this transcript) and possibly son-in-law Jared Kushner to Moscow to meet with President Putin. And then he sends Secretary of the Army Dan Driscoll to meet with the Ukrainians.
MARTIN: But you know, Franco, we've been here before. Do we have a sense of whether this is truly progress?
ORDOÑEZ: Yes. I mean that there are negotiations and an exchange of ideas. This is something. I mean, this is bigger than what was happening a few weeks ago. But are they any closer to sealing a deal? I mean, not necessarily. I mean, I talked to Ivo Daalder, who was ambassador to NATO during the Obama administration. And he says that, essentially, last week Russia agreed to one plan, and now Ukraine has agreed to another plan.
IVO DALDER: The problem is that Ukraine and Russia do not agree. So you can come up with any plan that the US and Russia can agree to, and any plan that the US and Ukraine can agree to. This is not the same as having a plan that Ukraine and Russia can agree on. And that's their problem.
MARTIN: Last week, President Trump appeared to set a take-it-or-leave-it Thanksgiving deadline, but over the weekend he rescinded it. What does this tell you about his motives?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, this is another example of Trump trying to just get a yes any way he can. Richard Fontaine worked in the White House of George W. Bush and now directs the Center for a New American Security. And he told me that what is important to Ukraine and Russia is not so important to Trump.
RICHARD FONTAINE: Trump clearly wants an agreement. I'm not sure the contents of the deal are all that important to him as long as he stops fighting. Thus, this gives greater flexibility to those negotiating the terms of this deal. And, of course, for Ukraine, and for Russians, and for Europeans, and for many people, conditions are decisive.
ORDOÑEZ: The terms are very important, and that's why Russia wants more of the eastern Donbass region for strategic and economic benefits. And that's why Ukraine wants clear security guarantees from Western partners like the US to ensure Russia never invades again.
MARTIN: You know, people may remember that Trump talks a lot about the conflicts that he says he ended. He did this yesterday during the Thanksgiving turkey pardon. How much does this have to do with his desire to win the Nobel Peace Prize?
ORDOÑEZ: Look, I mean, I think he genuinely cares about the loss of life. This is something he often mentions when talking about war. But I don't think we can discount his desire for recognition. I mean, he talks a lot about the Nobel Peace Prize. His assistants also talk about this. Both Daalder and Fontaine told me Trump is likely eyeing his legacy. And as any president would do, I mean, what better way to be known as the ultimate mediator than by resolving this intractable war?
MARTIN: This is White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Franco, thank you.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you, Michelle.
© 2025 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of Use And permissions pages in www.npr.org for more information.
The accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript may be modified to correct errors or accommodate audio updates. Audio on npr.org may be edited after it is originally broadcast or published. The authoritative recording of NPR programs is the audio recording.
