Cohen: Well, you know, I think one thing that surprises me is how big a story the Epstein files issue is. Because I have to say that I've always been like that – because I was skeptical, there was really a lot going on here. I never believed many of the conspiracy theories surrounding Epstein. But I think what we've seen over the last couple of months is a recognition that this is a big story for a lot of people on the right.
And not just the right, but across the entire political spectrum. But this story motivates many Republican voters and has become a big motivation for them. And, you know, I think what you see in this story – the way it's continued to metastasize over the last few months – is that people care about it, and that it's something that Trump doesn't have a good answer for. And I think it's hurting him politically in a way that I didn't expect – frankly, I didn't expect.
And I think that… look, you could say everything bad about the economy about Trump, all of it would hurt Trump, and that's the main thing that would hurt Trump. Economics is the biggest factor; this is what will hurt him the most. But this Epstein thing is in some ways a nasty story that continues to weaken his support, especially, I would say, among such dedicated MAGA voters.
I mean, look, probably 30% of MAGA voters will vote for Trump no matter what, support Trump no matter what. But I think there are softer Trump voters who are upset about it. And I think they will still vote for Trump? Likely. But will they vote Republican in 2026? I don't know.
That's why I said earlier that I'm kind of getting to the point now where I think many of these Republican senators and House members may come to the conclusion that they don't want to be on the wrong side of their constituents on this issue. This could be wrong; I suspect this is what is happening. And when you see someone—Kennedy—come out and say that, I think it's a real thing.
Sargent: Well, I'll tell you what: the size of defections, or defections, as Donald Trump put it in one of his crazy tweets, will be a very important indicator. Guys, if you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out Michael Cohen's book, Truth and Consequences. Michael, always great talking to you, man. Thank you for coming.
Cohen: Greg, always a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
