So what was the example of how he was treated?
I mean, these were disgusting articles that were coming out every day. You should go back and see for yourself. You write articles, right? You should go back and see for yourself. It was a campaign. It was even reported that this was a campaign.
So you think it was okay to ask him to step aside, but there shouldn't have been nasty articles?
Look, I'm saying this shouldn't have happened.
But was it supposed to happen or wasn't it supposed to happen?
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't think this should have happened. I think we had to do everything we could, regardless of who was at the top of the standings, and fight very hard. He was at the top of the list and that's why I think we should have fought for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to win. That's what I believed.
When he decided to run in 2023, we must also remember what was happening at that moment. There was no red wave in the midterm elections. In fact, the president and vice president performed better than any incumbent in their first midterm. Polls said it would be a red wave.
The poll was pretty accurate in 2022, but let's move on.
Well, ok, but remember, it was reported that there would be a red wave.
You are right, there has been a lot of talk about the red wave.
So there was no red wave. He was the sitting president and the only person to defeat Donald Trump. These were things that were true and were in front of him, and Democrats in leadership encouraged him to run.
So, even to this day, it doesn't bother you that Joe Biden might serve as president until January 2029?
I didn't see anything that could alarm me.
But you watched TV like the rest of us, right?
I always explain it this way: of course, he was older. Of course he was getting old. He mentioned this. He talked about how he didn't speak as well as he used to. He talked about how he didn't walk as well as he used to. Nobody says he hasn't aged, but I met him. I saw him every single day as White House Press Secretary, and he was a man who challenged his staff beyond politics.
One would think he could do the job before January 2025, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to think he could do the job before January 2029, would it?
It's not my place to say.
What do you mean it's not your place to talk?
No, no, no. Wait, I'm answering the question. I didn't see anything that would cause me concern. This is my answer.
Apart from the debates and other things that everyone saw?
I'm telling you that the debate was a one-time thing for me. I've never seen him like this before.
You write in the book: “He was just as impudent in interviews [George] Stephanopoulos, although some unnamed Democrats criticized the appearance, saying it did not allay their concerns.” This interview took place after the debate but before he withdrew. I went back and watched this interview. Here's one of the answers he gave: “I, uh… I prepared what I usually do, sitting down as before, going back with foreign leaders or the National Security Council for details. And about halfway through this I realized, you know, that's it – I'm being quoted in the New York newspaper. Time I was downed, ten points before the debate, nine now, or whatever the hell it is. The thing is, I saw that he also lied twenty-eight times. I couldn't, I mean the way the debate went, not…my fault, no one else's fault – no one else's fault.” When I watched this I thought: This man shouldn't be president for another four years.. This doesn't mean I think Donald Trump should become president, but I'm a little surprised that you don't see what so many people, including so many Democrats, have seen.
I'm not the only person who feels this. I'm just talking really loud. I am the kind of person who speaks quiet words out loud.
There is a silent minority of people who believe Biden was taken advantage of, and most people don't want to say it. Is this what you mean?
Let me just say that this is my experience that I am talking about and what I have seen. I just want to be very, very clear: on average. I just want to be clear: on average. Not from a single interview, not from a single discussion. On average. I've heard from many, many people who have been disappointed by the Democratic Party's response. I have. I have. And these are citizens. These are the people who vote.
Biden also said in the interview that he is faring significantly lower in the polls: “That's not what our polls are showing… Every pollster I talk to tells me it's a toss-up. It's a toss-up.” Apparently, Nancy Pelosi was concerned that Biden was not getting accurate information about what his polls showed against Trump. Were you concerned that Biden wasn't getting accurate information about the state of the race?
